Greetings to all of you in the name of Jesus Christ, our Lord and Savior. This last Friday, April 27, 2007 we finally got back into another Friday Night Apologetics study and chat. Unfortunately the last couple weeks we have missed a few, my apologies to you all. This FNA concluded the Colossians theme study and it was a good one! Not as many people showed up for this study but we definitely did not lack in discussions! Image by Christart at www.christart.com
In the conclusion of our Colossians theme we discussed 3:15-17 and 4:2-6. Our discussions focused highly upon Colossians 3:16 and Colossians 4:5-6. I will share just a couple thoughts from our discussion below and welcome those of you who were there to comment, and those who may listen later.
· Colossians 3:15-17 states: 15 Let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts, since as members of one body you were called to peace. And be thankful. 16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly as you teach and admonish one another with all wisdom, and as you sing psalms, hymns and spiritual songs with gratitude in your hearts to God. 17 And whatever you do, whether in word or deed, do it all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him (New American Standard Bible)
--->If we were to go for the next two years without having any access to a Bible, commentaries, or Bible related material, how would we do spiritually with the Word that we have in us right now? In other words, if all you had to for the next two years for spiritual truth is what you have memorized, how would that affect you? How would that affect the world?
Personally that is a hard to deal with for majority of those who are Christians. Most of us do not truly take the time to get into the Word of God, study, memorize, meditate, or things of that nature. Most Christians (at least most in North America) do the weekly Sunday visit and typically that is it. (in general terms) We are instructed by Paul and others places in Scripture to have the Word within us, to study, to meditate, and live by the very Word of God. What are your thoughts, if any?
· Colossians 4:2-6 states: 2 Devote yourselves to prayer, being watchful and thankful. 3 And pray for us, too, that God may open a door for our message, so that we may proclaim the mystery of Christ, for which I am in chains. 4 Pray that I may proclaim it clearly, as I should. 5 Be wise in the way you act toward outsiders; make the most of every opportunity. 6 Let your conversation be always full of grace, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how to answer everyone (New American Standard Bible)
--->In our discussion I shared how a friend of mine named Dave and I have been witnessing to some Mormon missionaries, though they don’t know they are being witnessed to, ha! When witnessing to Mormon missionaries it is different then witnessing to Jehovah’s Witnesses, UPCI, etc. Mormons are typically feelings based when it comes to what they believe. Very few Mormons actually know the Bible very well. (this could also apply to many Christians, hmmm.) Mormons typically know what they have been taught from the Book of Mormon, The Pearl of Great Price, Doctrines and Covenants, three sacred books of theirs additional to the Bible. They also have modern day prophets, (not true ones) and they get inspiration and doctrine from them as well. All those who have led the Mormon church from Joseph Smith until now are considered modern day prophets and on the same level as Scripture.
So with all of that I shared how we are meeting with some LDS missionaries and we have had 3 meetings thus far. Colossians 4:5-6 are very profound verses for sharing the faith. We must be wise in how we conduct ourselves, otherwise we may miss some solid opportunities in sharing the faith. One thing I have learned over the years in witnessing to Mormons is learning how to ask questions from what they share with me, and seek God and pray for seeds to be planted. In many cases learning how to listen, be patient, and ask key questions when the time is right can be very effective in sharing the faith. Of course there are times when we will be the ones answering the questions, and we need to be prepared for those times as well. What are some experiences you have had in sharing the faith with non-Christians and how did it go?
New topic for the month of May! For this month we will be discussing a bit deeper the subject of what is called “Arminianism”. Some of the key issues will be addressing what it means to be saved, in Christ, eternally secure, and how that relates in the body of Christ today. Following up after that in June we will address the other side of the coin, “Calvinism”, oh yea! The next couple months should be very interesting. God bless you, thank you for your interest in apologetics and growing together through the Word of God.
Kelly Powers
Anti False Doctrine Superhero
9 comments:
Greetings all:
So Tim is off the hook right away, because he was there. (smile) But to my buddies such as Daryl, Dennis, Cucu, and that guy savedbygrace90, where were you dudes? We had a great study discussion wrapping up Colossians, I enjoyed it personally and believe others did as well. Hopefully we can get back in gear on our Fridays again. I as I shared before plan to be opening the room around 7:30 PM my time, that is Central. (8:30PM Eastern, 5:30PM Pacific)
Well I look forward to the discussion here. We had new person/couple come into our study from finding afc online, praise God. Welcome "brokenvessel803" to the FNA crew. Ha, the FNA crew, that is funny!
KP
Finally...I'm off the hook (LOL). But seriously, it was a very good bible study. We probably could have gone another 2 weeks, but we have to move on to other topics as well. Arminianism...hmmm. Should be a good one for May. Talk to you all later.
Tim4Christ
[quote]If we were to go for the next two years without having any access to a Bible, commentaries, or Bible related material, how would we do spiritually with the Word that we have in us right now? In other words, if all you had to for the next two years for spiritual truth is what you have memorized, how would that affect you? How would that affect the world?[/quote]
The early church (who had no Bibles) dealt with this issue by memorizing creedal statements, and of course memorizing through songs and rhythmic expressions. The use of imagery in the OT and NT was critical for addressing of and to others (i.e. in the form of parables and imagery) in an illiterate society. Since our culture today is not of oral tradition, but written tradition, we have easy access to scriptures and commentaries, so often the praxis is to stray away from rote memorization. I tend to memorize just like the early followers, in that I mean that the focus is not on exact quotes, but a thought for thought paraphrase. The pedant may be rather squeamish at such disciplines, but the earlier believers would not have such qualms, per se.
As I stated, purists would not take this approach to memorization; however, historically this is how scripture was delivered before it was written down. The NT culture was less apt to be critical in a dogmatic sense as being in exactness. In other words, there were no quotation marks in the early languages. There was no Webster’s dictionary, a standardization of writing as we have now. There were no chapters or verses in the Bible back then as we know them now. So quoting from a scripture would be from the book of the author, but it would be difficult to trace the exact placement within that book.
The earlier culture, at the time, was more of a higher-context audience, meaning they knew the language and idioms of the era. Most often, today we tend to have a Westernized view of scripture that often does not fully embrace or realize the norms of the language and genre of the Bible. For me personally, I would stick with my paraphrasing with the authorial intent being put into my own words with a strict emphasis on the genre. Often in seminary, or in a group setting, when memorizing longer passages, theology students are encouraged to summarize these longer passages.
My personal experiences thus far would also keep me in focus to progressing forward and seeking wise counsel from those who would have memorized passages that I may not have. The memorization of the community is how the early followers got by without scripture. Certain families could memorize certain books and get together in community to learn or share passages. The emphasis however would be on how well the person(s) could memorize and if they were repeating through a paraphrase method of delivery.
On the other side of the coin, without access to scripture or writings, we would also have to place a trust in man and his or her memorization and quoting of the scripture. The early church also went through this struggle, and sometimes it had a disastrous affect. Often Pastors, Bishops, clergy would quote from commentaries or what had been passed down traditionally. Sometimes this was never questioned, and often it was taken as being the word of God. Nevertheless, the culture at the time of Jesus encompassed emotive people that were at times less critical then we tend to be today. For a more recognized approach to this discipline, I recommend a book called The Syrian Christ by Abraham Mitrie Rihbany
http://www.thesyrianchrist.com/index.html
I believe that quoting from various Bibles (through memorization) may create more division amongst the ranks if we keep with the over-critical mindset. If we still have access to those in Greek and Hebrew studies, we could also have a more realized confrontation about which manuscripts are closer to the original (autogpraha). We also need to recognize that the earlier languages do not always have equivalency to the English language. Often at the cost of being closer to the interlinear, the passages may not make sense or may not follow the original language or intent. NT and Greek professor from Dallas Theological Seminary, Daniel Wallace covers some of these issues within the NET Bible translation.
We already hold tensions of these different views of scripture, but now we would have to put our trust in man vs. the written word. I do believe, in time, through several generations, the followers would diminish if there were no access to any written works since our society has a written community mindset. Our society today approaches scripture much more critically, and we spend less time studying Christian and ANE history and genres. The sad fact is that many Christians today do not read their Bible on a regular basis.
[quote]Personally, that is a hard to deal with for majority of those who are Christians. Most of us do not truly take the time to get into the Word of God, study, memorize, meditate, or things of that nature. Most Christians (at least most in North America) do the weekly Sunday visit and typically, that is it. (in general terms) We are instructed by Paul and others places in Scripture to have the Word within us, to study, to meditate, and live by the very Word of God. What are your thoughts, if any?[/quote]
I do believe it is imperative to memorize scripture, but not so much as important as properly interpreting the scripture. We can be well versed in memorization, but it is all in vein if we do not understand the scripture, do not place it in a systematic fashion, or do not live by the scripture. The trade-off being that memorization will often help the believer throughout his or her struggles. Keeping the verse in-the-mind through repetition often helps me through my struggles. Sometimes the verse will be an exact quote, sometimes I paraphrase, but the original intent is always kept in proper perspective. At times when searching for the homiletical principle—we, as Christians, tend to push the scripture to fit our needs. Our goal is to find the timeless principles, but not all scriptures speak of timeless principles. It is our duty to study the genre, to find what is applicable to us today.
[quote]What are some experiences you have had in sharing the faith with non-Christians and how did it go?[/quote]
Most of my experiences have been online, due to the fact I live in a Bible-belt area. I have discussed my faith with Atheists, Muslims, skeptics, agnostics, and Buddhists. I am not sure if I have made any huge impacts, but I may have invoked a more critical approach to their beliefs. Often the counter arguments I see are very weak from these beliefs. I try to always keep them thinking or reviewing their thought processes in a different aspect. I do not know all the answers, but I do believe that what I believe is well grounded historically, logically, and critically. As the saying goes:
“A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still.”
I hope to see you guys this coming Friday.
Take Care,
Dennis
Greetings Tim and Dennis:
Tim it was a good study, and yes it could of went on but time to move on. I have so many things I wish to get into, man oh man...One piece at a time. Arminianism will be a good subject. I believe there is a lot of confusion in this area, a lot of misunderstandings on what true salvation is, and that is what I plan to address. Then to move on to Calvinism, did any say James White? LOL. That will be good as well. I hope we get some good interactions in our room.
Dennis, one thing is you don't post small nor in baby language LOL. I mean that in a good sense. I enjoyed your comments, I hope you make it to this Friday at 7:30PM Central.
Daryl where are you?
KP
Hey Everyone its Daryl, Right Here Kelly !!!
Advertisements like crazy huh Gene Cook
Great Chat this week!!!
The truth of the Lord reigns!! The next few months should be great topics; I probably won’t be able to make them b/c the time but I’ll blog and drop some Scriptural Truths here! And thedoctrinator as well haven’t got around to that yet but I will!!!
I’ve come to love Colossians more & more as we studied!
Dennis great comments
-->If we were to go for the next two years without having any access to a Bible, commentaries, or Bible related material, how would we do spiritually with the Word that we have in us right now? In other words, if all you had to for the next two years for spiritual truth is what you have memorized, how would that affect you? I would cause me to pray a lot more to communicate with God much much more!!! I would hunger for the Word, I do have a lot of notes and cards with Scriptures on it and a lot in memory too but I would truly long for the Word more and push to talk to God more too
How would that affect the world? The world would probably be worst, the church as a whole would be lacking
‘’Personally that is a hard to deal with for majority of those who are Christians. Most of us do not truly take the time to get into the Word of God, study, memorize, meditate, or things of that nature. Most Christians (at least most in North America) do the weekly Sunday visit and typically that is it. (In general terms) We are instructed by Paul and others places in Scripture to have the Word within us, to study, to meditate, and live by the very Word of God. What are your thoughts, if any’’ Paul had it down to truly get a grasp on the Word it takes about 6 things maybe more (Study, Meditate, Read, Hear, Memorize & Apply it)
………The Body of Christ as a majority just go through the motion on being a believer and not truly getting into God like He wants us to, when I’m not into God like I know I can be , my life feels empty and I know he is just wanting there with Open Arms ! He Loves US with an Everlasting Love!!! John 3:16, to all my True Believers in Christ that Read this I can Truly say we will have a Ball in Heaven in Fellowship, Worship and Praise to God and just being in the presence of God and finally seeing & being with him for all eternity…………………. ‘’What are some experiences you have had in sharing the faith with non-Christians and how did it go?’’ I shared the Faith with JWs, LDS, Muslims and NONBELIEVERS ………. John 14:6 IS TRUTH MANNNNN!!! When you preach/proclaim the Word of God with Power & conviction, people most of the time go back & have to think about what you’ve said if they weren’t saved!!!!
This is a prayer Request of a bro in Christ for his daughter Teja ‘’ There are a few specific prayer requests. Her blood pressure was a little high. They gave her some medication and it is back to a normal level. Please pray that God would keep it at a normal level so that she would not require any additional blood pressure medication. She is having some problems with her breathing ventilator. Her white blood cell count was pretty high (indicating infection) but that is thankfully on its way back down. Please pray that God would fight off any infection and that her white cell count would return to its normal level. They are planning to take her back to the OR to close up her wound from the transplants. Please pray that her body would continue healing and that the surgery would not need to be delayed. And of course the consistent prayer that her body would accept the organs and they could get her off of the anti-rejection medications. Have a great day tomorrow and God Bless.’’
Thanks God Bless All
In His Abounding Grace 4ever,
Daryl aka Trinity Truth
Daryl:
Yes, Colossians was a a great study, we could of did much more, but need to continue with other areas. Somewhere down the line we will get into another book of the bible, maybe something like 1 Peter, 1 John (oouuu ahhhhh), oh maybe Romans? (that could be lots of fun and we would need a few months for that one but we would cover tons of topics...)
We will praying and already have for your prayer requests. Sorry to hear you will not be able to make the live studies, but pray that you will be blessed in listening later and sharing at the blog. I welcome your comments at the doctrinator blogspot, I am working on something for it coming up.
the doctrinator www.thedoctrinator.blogspot.com check it out folks and share!
OK OK OK, one more day and then the Armin-e-ator time LOL, oh man could not resist that one, or wait, was I predestined to do that, oh man I am so confused ha ha!
Kelly Powers
Anti False Doctrine Superhero
P.S. --->who is going to watch Spidy part 3? We are as a group from church, lol, church people, well our young adults group 18-whatever age on Saturday. It is going to be a blast.
I might go and see Spidy soon. I have part I and II on DVD and I really enjoy them.
Wait... my spidy sense is tingling... gotta go!
Hey all. Just saying a quick hello. The audio study chat will be up soon at the site to listen to, and some notes.
Kelly
Check out www.thedoctrinator.blogspot.com
Sorry I missed last week
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